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HP 9114A IL Drive Message #1 Posted by Thibaut on 23 Aug 2000, 4:23 p.m. I've just purchased on ebay a HP 9114A IL drive. The seller confirmed it worked with a 71B calculator. In the manual, on the technical datas, some information is given for "40 and 70 series". Actually it powers up normally and seem in good condition My question is : does this drive work with a 41 calculator ? If yes, can someone give me the main instructions for saving, misting and opening files, and formatting disquettes ?

Re: HP 9114A IL Drive Message #2 Posted by Steve on 23 Aug 2000, 7:41 p.m., in response to message #1 by Thibaut 1) watch out for the problem where the disk is slow to eject after you press the eject button. 2) yes it works with the HP41 3) pretend it's a tape drive, only faster!

Re: HP 9114A IL Drive Message #3 Posted by Thibaut Cousin on 24 Aug 2000, 1:38 a.m., in response to message #2 by Steve Great ! Can you tell me what are the commands to load a program, save a program, list the contents of a disquette and format a new one ? Thanks ! Thibaut

Re: HP 9114A IL Drive Message #4 Posted by Steve on 24 Aug 2000, 6:23 a.m., in response to message #3 by Thibaut Cousin To load a program: READP (filename in alpha) To save a program: WRTP (note program name in alpha, optionally followed by a comma then the filename (defaults to program name)) To list contents of disk: DIR To format a new disk: NEWM (prompts for directory size I use 50 when I'm testing) To delete a program: PURGE (filename in alpha) Also READA and WRTA to read and write all, READK and WRTK to read and write key assignments, and many others :-) If you have an HP-IL interface check its quick reference or manual

Re: HP 9114A IL Drive Message #5 Posted by Thibaut on 24 Aug 2000, 1:40 p.m., in response to message #4 by Steve Hi, I've tested these commands, and the result was "TRANSMIT ERR"... So I wondered if there was not another set of commands for disk drives... These commands work perfectly with my cassette drive though !

Re: HP 9114A IL Drive Message #6 Posted by Steve on 24 Aug 2000, 7:33 p.m., in response to message #5 by Thibaut I'm assuming that there's no warning lights... Then (in order of decending probabilities): 1) you have a fault in the HP-IL interface of the drive 2) the battery level is way too low for the drive to work 3) the drive is not turned on 4) one of your HP-IL cables just broke 5) the HP-IL connectors on the drive are somehow faulty 6) you just developed a fault in your HP-IL interface 7) you are misreading 0.0000 as TRANSMIT ERR :-) Assuming that you know how to turn on the unit, then 1 is the most likely, 2 is a possibility, 3 means it's time to slap yourself around a bit, 4 is just silly (assuming you've tested your HP-IL interface on the cassette drive), 5 is a rather remote possibility (I'd put it behid a cable break), 6 is well, i've never actually seen a broken HP-IL interface, and 7 is... umm... a joke :-) You've got to understand that it's early in the morning here, and I say some silly things when I've just gotten up. Back to sensibility... Are you familiar with the start up self test these drives do? Do you have the unit with 2 lights, or 4 (or was that 5)? Have you replaced the battery? (Or confirmed it it OK) Note that this unit WILL NOT run from the charger alone. If you turn it on with a disk in it, the drive will do a self test. If this results in no flashing lights, then the drive thinks it's OK. The drive with 2 lights has one (the left one I think) as a battery low indicator. The newer version with more lights has them set up as a fuel guage, i.e. more lights means more charge available. For testing, make sure that they're ALL on, otherwise the drive may decide to stop doing certain things (i.e. writing to the disk) The internal battery is a SLA battery. I't easy to replace, but if there's problems with your drive, then maybe you don't want to go for that expense. If you're a bit handy with things, then you probably could replace it (temporarily) with 4 nicads of whatever size will fit. Don't expect the charger in the battery pack to work correctly with them though. Openning up the unit requires a #8 (from memory) TORX (again, from memory) screwdriver. They're the ones that look like an alen key except they have scalloped faces (concave). The screws are so far down little thin holes that you really need a screwdriver. I took my drive under my arm to an electronics store and tried all the TORX drivers until I found one that was the right size and long and thin enough. Once you take the bottom off (remove the battery first) you'll see the drive and a single large PCB. You'll also see the HPIL connectors and where they conect into the board. Maybe the connectors have become lose or something (I can't see that's likely unless someone's been there before you). Ah, I just noticed the title says 9114_A_. That's the one with 2 lights on the front -- yes? Even if the dive does not work, then there are parts that are valuable in getting another drive to work. At the very least the drive itself (the drives are different between the A and B versions) and the battery pack (some seem to be missing this) are items that you can swap to other units. The drives are so big and chunkey that you can actually repair them! I removed and reattached the head of one (in a 9114A) because it had become bent out of shape (well the suspension for the head had). If you think it's fiddly to put a card reader back together, then a disk drive is even worse. There's springs in there that work against you. Oh, check that your drive has heads! The common fault of these drives is that the lubricant hardens and the eject mechanism slows down. After a point, the eject must be completed manually (i.e. you have to pull the disk out) If this is the case, then it is quite possible that the heads are not out of the way, and the disk shutter will tear them off (or in my case just bend them way out of shape). If pushing the eject button (without a disk in the drive) just makes something in the drive go up and down, and it doesn't latch, then your drive has it BAD and may have head damage. This too is easy to fix if you catch it early. Take out the drive (the earth lead can be a pain to remove, and you will probably have to move the the main board (just a little) to get the screws back in (same as the ones that hold the cover on). Then take off the cover off the 3 1/2 inch drive. 1 screw does this on both types I think?? Or maybe one clips off. Then you'll be able to see the levers and things that make the eject mechanism work. They are all down one side of the drive. Now get a cotton swab or something and using alcohol, or degreaser or something that will act as a solvent for the grease, wipe away the old hard grease. remember that it's behind things too, so work the eject mechanism, and get the grease out from behind everything you can. At some point the eject mechanism will start to work again. If it hasn't been latching, the first indication is when a small lever jumps up and locks the drive in the eject position. This is a good thing, but it does not mean you've got all the gunk out. The eject should be snappy. When it is, put the drive down and come back tomorrow. The drive will no longer work! The solvent had softened some of the grease, and heat had done it's part too. So start again, and get the drive working again. (Then again, maybe you're lucky (or thorough) and did a good job the first time) Keep repeating this until the drive works the next day, or you get sick of it. Now use a light machine oil to LIGHTLY lubricate the parts that obviously move against one another and work the drive to make sure the oil gets to where it's needed. Then put it all back together. OK, I'll admit it. After I get the thing ejecting again I put it back together to make sure everything still works, but sure as eggs, it's gummed up again the next day, so I go back through the routine again until I've done it properly. I've used this technique on about 10 drives of this vintage, and assuming there was no head damage, have had 100% success. I've only had one drive with head damage that was recoverable. In hindsight, the only reason why I attempted the fix this one, rather than earlier ones is that when I first did this there were quite a lot of drives (the 3 1/2 drives, not the 9114 units) around, and binning one was not such a bad thing. This should more than answer your question, and possibly arm you to find and fix these units :-)

Re: HP 9114A IL Drive Message #7 Posted by Thibaut on 24 Aug 2000, 9:45 p.m., in response to message #6 by Steve WOW ! What a long answer ! >I'm assuming that there's no warning lights... > >Then (in order of decending probabilities): >1) you have a fault in the HP-IL interface of the drive could be >2) the battery level is way too low for the drive to work powered by a transformer, seems to power up correclty >3) the drive is not turned on welll it was >4) one of your HP-IL cables just broke other IL devices work perfectly >5) the HP-IL connectors on the drive are somehow faulty could be >6) you just developed a fault in your HP-IL interface could be >7) you are misreading 0.0000 as TRANSMIT ERR :-) well... huh.... >Assuming that you know how to turn on the unit, then 1 is >the most likely, 2 is a possibility, 3 means it's time to >>slap yourself around a bit, 4 is just silly (assuming >you've tested your HP-IL interface on the cassette drive), >5 is a rather remote possibility (I'd put it behid a cable >break), 6 is well, i've never actually seen a broken HP-IL >interface, and 7 is... umm... a joke :-) >You've got to understand that it's early in the morning >here, and I say some silly things when I've just gotten up. No problemo, I have sense of humor ! >Back to sensibility... >Are you familiar with the start up self test these drives >do? No >Do you have the unit with 2 lights, or 4 (or was that 5)? 3 lights actually, one power on, one "fault", one that should turn on when the drive is running >Have you replaced the battery? (Or confirmed it it OK) >Note that this unit WILL NOT run from the charger alone. it has been adapted and seem to be powered perfeclty. The seller pretends it worked with a 71B before >If you turn it on with a disk in it, the drive will do a >self test. If this results in no flashing lights, then the >drive thinks it's OK. It is then OK >The drive with 2 lights has one (the left one I think) as >a battery low indicator. The newer version with more >lights has them set up as a fuel guage, i.e. more lights >means more charge available. For testing, make sure that >they're ALL on, otherwise the drive may decide to stop >doing certain things (i.e. writing to the disk) >The internal battery is a SLA battery. I't easy to >replace, but if there's problems with your drive, then >maybe you don't want to go for that expense. If you're a >bit handy with things, then you probably could replace it >(temporarily) with 4 nicads of whatever size will fit. >Don't expect the charger in the battery pack to work >correctly with them though. It is a power adapter that seem to come from educalc >Openning up the unit requires a #8 (from memory) TORX >(again, from memory) screwdriver. They're the ones that >look like an alen key except they have scalloped faces >(concave). The screws are so far down little thin holes >that you really need a screwdriver. I took my drive under >my arm to an electronics store and tried all the TORX >drivers until I found one that was the right size and long >and thin enough. >Once you take the bottom off (remove the battery first) >you'll see the drive and a single large PCB. You'll also >see the HPIL connectors and where they conect into the >board. Maybe the connectors have become lose or something >>(I can't see that's likely unless someone's been there before you). >Ah, I just noticed the title says 9114_A_. That's the one >with 2 lights on the front -- yes? correct >Even if the dive does not work, then there are parts that >are valuable in getting another drive to work. At the very >least the drive itself (the drives are different between >the A and B versions) and the battery pack (some seem to >be missing this) are items that you can swap to other >units. >The drives are so big and chunkey that you can actually >repair them! I removed and reattached the head of one (in >a 9114A) because it had become bent out of shape (well the >suspension for the head had). If you think it's fiddly to >put a card reader back together, then a disk drive is even >worse. There's springs in there that work against you. I don't pretend to go into that deep ! >Oh, check that your drive has heads! The common fault of >these drives is that the lubricant hardens and the eject >mechanism slows down. After a point, the eject must be >completed manually (i.e. you have to pull the disk out) If >this is the case, then it is quite possible that the heads >are not out of the way, and the disk shutter will tear >them off (or in my case just bend them way out of shape). >If pushing the eject button (without a disk in the drive) >just makes something in the drive go up and down, and it >doesn't latch, then your drive has it BAD and may have >head damage. It seems OK >This too is easy to fix if you catch it early. Take out >the drive (the earth lead can be a pain to remove, and you >will probably have to move the the main board (just a >little) to get the screws back in (same as the ones that >hold the cover on). Then take off the cover off the 3 1/2 >inch drive. 1 screw does this on both types I think?? Or >maybe one clips off. Then you'll be able to see the levers >and things that make the eject mechanism work. They are >all down one side of the drive. >Now get a cotton swab or something and using alcohol, or >degreaser or something that will act as a solvent for the >grease, wipe away the old hard grease. remember that it's >behind things too, so work the eject mechanism, and get >the grease out from behind everything you can. At some >point the eject mechanism will start to work again. If it >hasn't been latching, the first indication is when a small >lever jumps up and locks the drive in the eject position. >This is a good thing, but it does not mean you've got all >the gunk out. The eject should be snappy. When it is, put >the drive down and come back tomorrow. >The drive will no longer work! The solvent had softened >some of the grease, and heat had done it's part too. So >start again, and get the drive working again. (Then again, >maybe you're lucky (or thorough) and did a good job the >first time) >Keep repeating this until the drive works the next day, or >you get sick of it. >Now use a light machine oil to LIGHTLY lubricate the parts >that obviously move against one another and work the drive >to make sure the oil gets to where it's needed. >Then put it all back together. >OK, I'll admit it. After I get the thing ejecting again I >put it back together to make sure everything still works, >but sure as eggs, it's gummed up again the next day, so I >go back through the routine again until I've done it >properly. >I've used this technique on about 10 drives of this >vintage, and assuming there was no head damage, have had >100% success. I've only had one drive with head damage >that was recoverable. In hindsight, the only reason why I >attempted the fix this one, rather than earlier ones is >that when I first did this there were quite a lot of >drives (the 3 1/2 drives, not the 9114 units) around, and >binning one was not such a bad thing. Huh... it is a 3/12 drive ?! actually ! >This should more than answer your question, and possibly >arm you to find and fix these units :-) Well, after all this information, (I suggest you put one or two graphs, you've written a good collaboration for this site, David could certainly post it on the repair forum !), I don't have much to loose and will try all you said ! Many thanks anyway ! I'll keep you informed !

Re: HP 9114A IL Drive Message #8 Posted by Steve on 25 Aug 2000, 3:27 a.m., in response to message #7 by Thibaut > WOW ! What a long answer ! :-) > > Are you familiar with the start up self test these drives do? > No For this unit, turning it on will result in 2 red lights (power and fault) for a few seconds, then the fault light goes out and all is well. If you start it with a disk in it, then the drive does a read/write(?) test on the disk and the whole test takes a bit longer. Likewise, the fault light goes out, leaving the power light on. > > Do you have the unit with 2 lights, or 4 (or was that 5)? > 3 lights actually, one power on, one "fault", one that should turn on when the drive is running I didn't count that one :-). > The drive with 2 lights has one (the left one I think) as a battery low indicator. This is, of course rubbish, the left light is power, the right one Fault. *blush* > it has been adapted and seem to be powered perfeclty. The seller pretends it worked with a 71B before Hmmmm > > ...then the drive thinks it's OK. > It is then OK The Fault light should actually go off. But this test CAN NOT detect certain problems with the HP-IL interface > > Don't expect the charger in the battery pack to work correctly with them though. > It is a power adapter that seem to come from educalc I havn't seen one of these. The normal charger is the same unit that is used with the HP97, HP41, and HP71. Tel me more about the modified unit. Does it still have a lead acid battery? What is the rating of the charger? Interesting! > > The drives are so big and chunkey that you can actually repair them! > I don't pretend to go into that deep ! It was only out of necessity, not for the fun. OK, it was for the fun of it. But only once! > Huh... it is a 3 1/2 drive ?! actually ! Yes, but a rather old type of Sony drive. And one with an unusual interface. I'm sure that if we could find the interface specs it would be possible to use a newer 720K drive. It's a dream... > I don't have much to lose and will try all you said ! I just measured the resistance across the in and out pins of the HP-IL interface. On my drive it measures 1.2 ohms across the out, and 1 ohm across the in terminals. whilst it's unlikely that someone has done something silly and connected a power source to them, it is possible, so it might be worth checking them. Oh, and if I do a DIR with no disk in the drive I get a NO MEDM error.

Re: HP 9114A IL Drive Message #9 Posted by Carlos Murillo on 25 Aug 2000, 10:01 a.m., in response to message #8 by Steve > Huh... it is a 3 1/2 drive ?! actually ! >Yes, but a rather old type of Sony drive. And one >with an unusual interface. I'm sure that if we could >find the interface specs it would be >possible to use a newer 720K drive. It's a dream.. According to Tony Duell, hardware hacker extraordinaire, the drives in some early Macintosh models are similar enough that you can simply pull many of the mechanical parts and expect them to fit the 9114; I believe the head assembly was one of the parts mentioned. And there are many, many early macs lying around, so there is hope.

Re: HP 9114A IL Drive Message #10 Posted by Andrés C. Rodríguez on 25 Aug 2000, 11:38 a.m., in response to message #9 by Carlos Murillo Keep in mind that early Macs used Constant Linear Velocity to record and read floppies, so the components related to spindle speed may be different than on the 9114. Other possible donors are HP150 and early Amiga computers. (unchecked ideas)

Replacement from early HP150 drives Message #11 Posted by Steve on 25 Aug 2000, 12:31 p.m., in response to message #10 by Andrés C. Rodríguez Yes, the early HP150 drives were certainly the same. The early ones with the blue buttons are similar to the 9114A drive, and I would hazard a guess that the newer (although not the newest) ones with the grey power buttons are similar to the 9114B drives. Note that the 9114A and 9114B use different drives! I used to have a large number of these drives (but sadly they are now gone...)

Re: HP 9114A IL Drive Message #12 Posted by Randy Smith on 25 Aug 2000, 3:38 a.m., in response to message #6 by Steve How about posting this in the articles forum? How to clean a disk drive is good archive material. Randy

Re: HP 9114A IL Drive Message #13 Posted by Steve on 25 Aug 2000, 4:50 a.m., in response to message #12 by Randy Smith OK, I'll reformat it and think about it a bit more and post it there in a day or so.

Re: HP 9114A IL Drive Message #14 Posted by Steve (Australia) on 9 Sept 2000, 12:43 p.m., in response to message #12 by Randy Smith After some considerable time, I've gathered the posts together and made an article out of them

Thank you! Message #15 Posted by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina) on 9 Sept 2000, 2:10 p.m., in response to message #14 by Steve (Australia) Although far from any HP-IL device, even more from any 9114, I'd like to say Thank you, Steve (again), for your effort in writing an interesting article for us all!

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