HP Forum Archive 02

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Help my 41C Message #1 Posted by Erik on 8 Mar 2000, 12:19 p.m. I recently picked up a cherry-looking 41C w/card reader and three modules. Sadly, the calc itself seems dead. Well, let me put it another way. When I first got it, I hauled out the old AC adapter and hooked it up to the 41C's little AC-connection dots. Saw a flicker of life, a few words about Memory Loss, and then a blank screen. Uh-oh. So, then I went and bought the 4N batteries, and now I get nada. Did I mess up the machine? Anyone have any thoughts? Thanks, Erik

Re: Help my 41C Message #2 Posted by Viktor Toth on 8 Mar 2000, 2:23 p.m., in response to message #1 by Erik Ugh, the HP-41C doesn't have an AC connector, not unless you have a rechargeable battery pack in it. What, exactly, did you connect your adapter to, and what kind of an adapter was it? Viktor

Re: Help my 41C Message #3 Posted by Erik on 8 Mar 2000, 3:00 p.m., in response to message #2 by Viktor Toth Uh-oh. Well, on the right side of my 41C, next to where the battery pack slots in, there's a little hole with two metallic bumps. I just assumed that was where you plugged in an adapter. So, I took my junky all-purpose adapter, set it on 6V, and touched one lead to each of the metal dots. Like I said, I saw the flicker. Then I saw nothing. BTW, this calculator is so clean in looks that I can't believe it's dead. The on/off switch is the on/user toggle at the top just beneath the LCD screen, right? Lord, I hope I haven't slain the thing. Thanks for any help you can give. Erik

Re: Help my 41C Message #4 Posted by Dave Hicks on 8 Mar 2000, 3:31 p.m., in response to message #3 by Erik The correct adapter *for the rechargeable pack* is 8VAC. I don't know if the specs for the "buttons" are the same. Earlier HPs had a warning in the manual that they shouldn't be run without batteries in place. I wonder if HP redesigned the 41C charging system to enforce this. HP was known to remove the buttons from early 41Cs sent in for service. Some people thought they were recovering the microgram of gold, but perhaps they were ensuring that no one did what you did.

Re: Help my 41C Message #5 Posted by Erik on 8 Mar 2000, 4:16 p.m., in response to message #4 by Dave Hicks Dave: Hmmm. All this being the case, do you know where on the battery buttons I might hook up an 8V adapter to see if I can get the thing up and running? (And why do you suppose it's 8V, given that the batteries are 4x1.5V?) Or do you think maybe I ought to sit tight for a bit and try not to do any more damage. Thanks, Erik

Re: Help my 41C Message #6 Posted by John on 8 Mar 2000, 6:31 p.m., in response to message #5 by Erik Erik, Don't connect 8V to the battery terminals inside the battery bay, you could connect 6V DC (to the outer two terminals, but get the polarity right !!), but better to use batteries. The 8V Dave mentioned is 8V AC used for the rechargeable battery pack, the charger plug doesn't connect to the terminals you tried but instead goes further through the "tunnel" to the terminals on the rechargeable battery pack itself. If you've bought 4 new N cells and it still doesn't work, clean the battery terminals, if it still doesn't work you've probably fried it. - John

Re: Help my 41C Message #7 Posted by Perry Arnett on 26 Mar 2000, 5:07 p.m., in response to message #6 by John FWIW: on four HP C's; some C, come CV, some CX; I find that all will give "false OFF" indication if the key contacts are dirty. Solution: spray CRC QD Electronic Contact cleaner into the front of the keyboard especially on all four sides of the ON/OFF key; you might surprised that the machine was in working order all along, but that the ON key did not work!!!! after spraying it, then toggle the key numerous times - if that does't work use the Reset procedure outlined on page 385 of Vol II of the Manual. Again, you might be surprised that the old machine will come to life. Good luck!

Re: Help my 41C Message #8 Posted by Perry Arnett on 26 Mar 2000, 6:10 p.m., in response to message #7 by Perry Arnett I failed to mention that it appears that there is a capacitor in the 41 such that when fully discharged takes charging to reactivate. what this means is that sometimes, putting a fresh pack of batteries in will NOT instantly bring the machine back to life; Solution? insert and remove the fresh battery pack a number of times while toggling the ON and USER switch; more likely than not, at some point the display will activate, usually "Memory Lost", and the machine is back among the living. I don't know the power design or circuitry of the machine, but what I've described works, and seems to be a reasonable explanation based on messing with them since 1984. it appears that it is the act of repeatedly energizing and removing power to the capacitor that finally brings the machine to life; sometimes, even, when it has come back to life after a long sleep, it will go dead again soon, so one has to try the repeated energizing and removing power until the machine finally stays awake. if nothing else works, send it to me and I'll be happy to see what I can do

Re: Help my 41C Message #9 Posted by Viktor Toth on 8 Mar 2000, 10:56 p.m., in response to message #3 by Erik Ah, so one of those old machines (I never had one of those) that had that extra adapter plug. The problem is that most all-purpose adapters, when set to 6V, actually have a much higher idle voltage (up to 15V). It drops to around 6V at the nominal load, say, 500 mA. Since the HP-41C has very little power consumption, chances are that it got the full idle voltage of the adapter, and it got fried in a split second. Viktor

Re: Help my 41C Message #10 Posted by Dave Hicks on 8 Mar 2000, 3:08 p.m., in response to message #2 by Viktor Toth It sounds like he hooked up the connections found on early 41Cs that were never used. (Because the rechargeable pack, once released, had it's own connection.) I have no idea what happens if you apply power there. I'm also not sure how he made contact between a proper 41C charger and those little "buttons", making me wonder if he was using the right charger.

Re: Help my 41C Message #11 Posted by Steve on 9 Mar 2000, 5:48 p.m., in response to message #10 by Dave Hicks Yes, it was possible to power the HP41 by providing a source of 6VDC to the "gold bumps". This is mentioned in several of the earlier PPC issues. But the solutions seemed to revolve around 6V batteries rather than power supplies. I concur with the argument about power supplies and high voltage without load. RIP HP-41

Re: Help my 41C Message #12 Posted by Joe on 8 Mar 2000, 8:49 p.m., in response to message #1 by Erik Eric, The two gold balls are for a power adapter that HP never sold. They connect directly to the DC power buss inside the calculator. The 8 VAC output charger is for use with the rechargeable battery pack. After HP started selling the rechargeable battery packs they decided that there was no use for the DC power supply so they never released it for sale. They also quit putting the gold balls in the 41s. Only the 41s made in the first couple of years of production have them. Furthermore, since they severed no purpose, HP usually removed them from 41s that were returned for repairs. I hope you didn't reverse the connections, if you did then you almost certainly fried the 41. If you didn't reverse them then it SHOULD be ok except for the original problem. I work on the 41s. Contact me directly if you want me to take a look at it. Joe

What is the penalty for killing a 41? Message #13 Posted by Menno on 9 Mar 2000, 2:46 a.m., in response to message #1 by Erik One should know that cheap AC-adapters never give the right current. Next to that fact an adapter will not give a "clean" DC-current as a battery does. It will still have a 50Hz signature, basic electronic knowledge: how to transform AC to DC. Erik, you should try to use the AC-adapter for your Pentium-motherboard, see what happens....... For a very stable DC-current I allways use an old power-supply of a IBM-AT Menno

Re: What is the penalty for killing a 41? Message #14 Posted by Erik on 9 Mar 2000, 6:15 a.m., in response to message #13 by Menno Gawd, I'm feeling worse and worse about this. I mean, could I have really killed my 41? Okay, so it doesn't work on N's; perhaps there's something wrong with the battery box or with other simple connections. Is there no way to test for this? I am sooo very ashamed. Sigh.

Re: What is the penalty for killing a 41? Message #15 Posted by Steve on 9 Mar 2000, 5:52 p.m., in response to message #14 by Erik Don't feel bad yet. Post the serial number and we'll tell you if it's early enough to have all the bugs. If it is, then you can feel _really_ sad :-( What's the current value for a 41 with all the bugs?

Re: What is the penalty for killing a 41? Message #16 Posted by db on 9 Mar 2000, 7:31 p.m., in response to message #15 by Steve the penalty for killing a 41 is that you have to use and program a 49 until hp makes something at least as good as the 42 again (there will never be another 41). i'm sorry, the law givs me no alternative. but if it will make you feel any better; i did the same thing to a 22 once :-(

My 41C's Serial Number Message #17 Posted by Erik on 9 Mar 2000, 8:21 p.m., in response to message #15 by Steve Okay, at the risk a further humiliation, here's the numbers: 2452S41537 Do you suppose when I fried the calc (assuming I did indeed fry it), I also fried the other stuff hooked up to it -- the card reader and the modules Math I, Home Mgt, and Quad Memory? I am feeling worser and worser ...

Re: My 41C's Serial Number Message #18 Posted by Steve on 10 Mar 2000, 1:02 a.m., in response to message #17 by Erik Hmmm 2452.... My reference lists that as being well into the production era of the HP-41CV. But you said it had the gold balls. I was under the impression that the gold balls were removed before the CV came along. I was expecting a serial number like 1950A... Perhaps this calculator was sent back for repair, or was fixed by somebody who mixed and matched to get a working unit. Does it have the upright keys or the more sloping keys? (you really need another HP41 to compare it with). you may well have damaged the other modules. It depends on exactly how well you fried the HP41 :-(

"allbugs 41C" value? Message #19 Posted by thib on 11 Mar 2000, 11:31 a.m., in response to message #17 by Erik 2452S.... definitely this is not an "allbugs" 41C... Do the older 41 have a special value?

Re: "allbugs 41C" value? Message #20 Posted by Steve on 12 Mar 2000, 9:35 a.m., in response to message #19 by thib Well, if a bog standard 41CV is worth $US250 then an early edition 41C with all bugs should be worth several thousand on rarity alone. Anyone want to but a 41C with all bugs for the bargain basement price of $US1750? I thought not.

Re: Help my 41C Message #21 Posted by Les Bell on 9 Mar 2000, 9:51 p.m., in response to message #1 by Erik A lot depends on what the "old AC adapter" was. If it was the 8259 adapter for the 41's battery, then you ought to know that that adapter puts out 8V AC - the rectifier circuit is in the battery itself - and if that's the case, I think you'll find you've fried the calc. If it was a DC output adapter AND if the polarity was right (50/50 proposition) you may be OK. Best, --- Les [http://www.lesbell.com.au]

Who repairs HP-41s Message #22 Posted by Ken Hartrman on 6 Apr 2000, 6:21 p.m., in response to message #1 by Erik We used to be able to send them to HP,but Ive heard they don't repair 41's anymore. We use them for surveying and we beat em up pretty good. Any help would be apprieciated.

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