The Museum of HP Calculators

HP Forum Archive 02

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Beta test of new features pages
Message #1 Posted by Dave Hicks on 16 Jan 2000, 12:54 p.m.

I've placed some calculator features pages at:

http://www.hpmuseum.org/features/test.htm

and a comparison page at:

http://www.hpmuseum.org/features/compare.htm

Eventually all of this will be linked from the individual calculator pages but I'm looking for errors and omissions before I do that. I'm especially lacking features found in ROMS or pacs for the desktop calculators and a few of the handhelds. Please send any information/corrections.

      
Re: Beta test of new features pages
Message #2 Posted by Wayne Brown on 16 Jan 2000, 3:46 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Dave Hicks

Well, the first thing I noticed was that a lot of the links on the features page were wrong. The HP-16C was linked to the 19C, the 19C goes to the 22, the 41C goes to the 9100B, the 91 goes to the 15C, etc. I had fun clicking on models and guessing where I'd end up. :-) I really like this idea, though, and the indicdual pages are very nice.

The comparison stuff is great. I haven't had time to go through a lot of it, but it looks very good and is attractively formatted. My only suggestion would be to add some newer models if possible. I'd love to be able to generate a chart showing how well the older models stack up against the current offerings in real-world applications.

On another subject: I've been so busy that I haven't had a chance to scan that plotter manual I promised you. However, I've taken tomorrow off from work to catch up on a few things, and getting that manual scan finished is on the top of my list.

            
Re: Beta test of new features pages
Message #3 Posted by Steve on 16 Jan 2000, 4:34 p.m.,
in response to message #2 by Wayne Brown

Looks really good. I didn't have the same problems as Wayne with links going wrong.

(unless you count the fact that selecting HP-16C gives me a page that claims it's got an LED display).

hmmm 15C is LCD... (same thing if you compare the 15C and 16C.

                  
Re: Beta test of new features pages
Message #4 Posted by Dave Hicks on 16 Jan 2000, 6:04 p.m.,
in response to message #3 by Steve

Both the randomized links and the 16C display are fixed now.

Thanks!

      
Re: Beta test of new features pages
Message #5 Posted by Tony on 16 Jan 2000, 8:25 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Dave Hicks

Excellent job, your selection of categories and the overall look are very useful. Since you have the year of introduction, it would be nice to include the year of discontinuation. I would also like to see a field for self test, and if valid, the keystrokes to activate it. The end notes of the HP-81 mention it is a printing version of the HP-81 not 80. Thanks for all your work!

            
Re: Beta test of new features pages
Message #6 Posted by Dave Hicks on 17 Jan 2000, 10:39 p.m.,
in response to message #5 by Tony

Thanks Tony. The keystrokes for the self-test would probably be too squeezed in the table itself but I'll consider adding them to the notes section.

      
Re: Beta test of new features pages
Message #7 Posted by Mark Hardman on 16 Jan 2000, 9:57 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Dave Hicks

As long as you are cataloging each calculator's features, why not document known bugs for each model? Most of us use Craig A. Finseth's HPDATAbase to research this type of information. However, it would be nice to have it canonized in the MoHPC.

Mark

            
Re: Beta test of new features pages
Message #8 Posted by Charles Perry on 17 Jan 2000, 12:07 p.m.,
in response to message #7 by Mark Hardman

Where can I get Craig A. Finseth's HPDATAbase ?

                  
Re: Beta test of new features pages
Message #9 Posted by Todd Garabedian on 18 Jan 2000, 11:27 a.m.,
in response to message #8 by Charles Perry

Try this Link:

http://www.finseth.com/~fin/hpdata.html

            
Re: Beta test of new features pages
Message #10 Posted by Dave Hicks on 17 Jan 2000, 1:33 p.m.,
in response to message #7 by Mark Hardman

Bugs are listed in the collector's corner. I think that's better than calling them "features" ;-)

More bugs are welcome.

      
Re: Beta test of new features pages
Message #11 Posted by Larry McCroskey on 17 Jan 2000, 11:51 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Dave Hicks

The HP-25 and HP-25C features pages should show that these calculators DO offer Engineering format in the display. These same calculators also sum n,x,x squared, y, and xy.

Great job and great fun to look at.

            
Re: Beta test of new features pages
Message #12 Posted by Dave Hicks on 17 Jan 2000, 10:37 p.m.,
in response to message #11 by Larry McCroskey

Nice catches. Thanks!

      
Re: Beta test of new features pages
Message #13 Posted by Larry McCroskey on 17 Jan 2000, 10:36 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Dave Hicks

The HP-67 and HP-97 have 8 conditional tests.

The HP-97 dimensions and weight are:

length: 9"

depth: 8"

height: 2.5"

weight: 2.5 pounds

The HP-10C, HP-11C, and HP-15C use RPN as their programming language.

The HP-11C was introduced in 1981.

The HP-27S has an LCD display and alpha prompts.

The HP-38E has a LAST X key.

The HP-37E and HP-38E both sum n,x,x squared, y, y squared, and xy.

The HP-33E and HP-37E were both introduced in 1978.

            
Re: Beta test of new features pages
Message #14 Posted by Dave Hicks on 17 Jan 2000, 11:04 p.m.,
in response to message #13 by Larry McCroskey

Excellent! Thanks again!

      
Re: Beta test of new features pages
Message #15 Posted by Andrés C. Rodríguez on 18 Jan 2000, 5:34 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Dave Hicks

I liked the new features and comparison pages. Just some suggestions/corrections:

HP25: While it is true that is does storage arithmetic, it does not have "recall arithmetic" ie: it has STO+0, STO*5, but no RCL+1. Other models have RCL arithmetic, if memory helps, even the HP45 did. Opcode space limits may have been a cause for this, since each merged keystroke was to be coded in one single byte, so there were only 255 possible opcodes, and recall arithmetic would have consumed 32 opcodes.

HP25: The link at the bottom of the HP25 page leads to the HP21, not to the HP25C, as supposed.

HP41C: No suggestions.

HP42S: It does NOT has overlays or magcards to define softkeys, only softlabels on the display menu.

HP42S: Sum of lists IS supported. First edit a matrix, and then press the Sigma key with the matrix object in the x register.

HP42S: Subroutine levels are 8, not 6 as stated.

            
HP 25 opcodes and RCL arithmetic
Message #16 Posted by Andrés C. Rodríguez on 18 Jan 2000, 10:46 p.m.,
in response to message #15 by Andrés C. Rodríguez

I had just reviewed my estimation about opcodes for the HP25, and it seems there were enough free opcodes for recall arithmetic. This corrects my previous suggestion about why HP did not implemented that feature in the HP25. ROM space may be a cause, but I don't have any precision on this. The HP Journal article that introduced the -20 series suggests that, once defined the hardware (CPU, RAM and ROM capacity), then the design teams discuss what functions to implement within the available ROM. Despite programming and developing costs, it was clear that "code" does not add to the production cost of each unit, while chips do.

            
Re: Beta test of new features pages
Message #17 Posted by Dave Hicks on 18 Jan 2000, 11:20 p.m.,
in response to message #15 by Andrés C. Rodríguez

Thanks Andrés!

I don't list RCL arithmetic because it's a rather obscure (and in my opinion not overly useful) feature. The HP-45 was one the very few to support it. I suppose, that an argument for listing RCL arithmetic can be made BECAUSE of its rarity. How do other people feel about this?

The other errors have been fixed.

                  
Re: Beta test of new features pages
Message #18 Posted by Todd Garabedian on 19 Jan 2000, 9:36 a.m.,
in response to message #17 by Dave Hicks

Dave,

I would like to see the RCL arithmetic option in the features list because it is an unusual feature found on only a handfull of HP calculators. I believe the models that had RCL arithmetic were the 45, 46, 27, 15C, 32S, 42S, and 32SII. And I would have to respectfully disagree with you regarding it's usefulness. I have found that recall arithmetic is quite useful in many programs.

Also, I believe the HP-27S was the only calculator to do exponentiation (STO ^ nn) as part of storage arithmetic (but not recall arithmetic). Perhaps a footnote on the 27S features page could point this out.

Todd

      
Re: Beta test of new features pages
Message #19 Posted by Jim on 23 Jan 2000, 9:53 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Dave Hicks

Dave,

I love the comparison page! It is great to be able to compare the calculators side by side. I know you are a busy guy, but I would love to see that info on some of the newer models also such as the 38G, 48S, 48SX, 48G, 48GX and that new TI clone. That way we could compare the great oldies right along side some of the newer models. It is just a suggestion....

Keep up the good work!!!


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